Monday, May 24, 2010

The End - Discuss 582

No updates, no new posters, just a place to discuss the end if you want to, be warned the no spoilers rule is rescinded for this post.

The picture is from my garden this morning shortly after the episode started when the light was the brightest and warmest it's been this year, sort of fits really.



We have just received finale thoughts from Ben Morse and I thought I would share them with you all.

A TV series lives or dies by it’s final episodes. It’s the final images, rewarding ardent fans ideally, and swaying those that sat on the fence that actually, this show was special. Sunday night / Monday morning’s Lost finale was just that – an extraordinary grace note that consolidated six years of one of the most ambitious science fiction dramas ever committed to by a major network.

The genius of Lost lies in its flaws.......

Click here to read the rest of the article

It is at its base, a show about being human. About connections, emotions and memories. The argument between science and faith. Live together, die alone – because as we learned at the end, whatever happened, happened.

If that seems like Lost cliché overload, it isn’t. Because these are notions that were brought up six years ago, five years ago, last week, buried amongst dense theological abstracts, quantum physics, religious symbology and that bloody electromagnetism.

For instance – take The Cork – a literal cork? A gateway to hell? An electromagnetic conduit? Lost taught us, very gently and carefully that our obsession with these details is irrelevant. It’s just there. And it needed replacing. Hell, at that point I forgave the tunnel of love from two episodes ago (I still maintain that episode was deeply flawed, and could have been handled better).

And the oh-so-cleverly mislabelled “flash sideways” that fans named, and Cuse & Lindelof happily lifted resolved successfully, quite the achievement in itself, but that it came in the form of an emotional sucker-punch so far out of left field that by all rights you should splutter in disbelief made it all the more special. I’m not ashamed to say Jack’s resolution (and consequently, all of the castaways) was the final moment I burst into tears openly. Hurley’s destiny, Ben’s apology, all found me with something in my eye.

A large part of the credit for that must fall with a cast, who really stepped up in the dying hours of the show. Jorge Garcia, Matthew Fox, Terry O’Quinn and Michael Emmerson obvious standouts in a uniformly strong ensemble. In a season that has had its mis-steps at times (I still don’t like that The Smoke Monster didn’t have a name, and that Jacob turned out to be kind of a douche – but hey! That’s what makes them fallible and human, which is what the show is about, right? RIGHT?) the commitment by the cast to the ideals of the show, and putting their trust in Jack Bender’s assured direction created a credible, moving piece of drama.

We are still left with hundreds of questions. Lost was never going to answer them. The trick was making us not care, something it managed in spades. It still played ball with it’s fans though. The two and a half hours were filled with those little moments that die-hards have loved, obsessed over and developed with the show – references to Olly Moss’ Locke’s Secret art print as Locke dies in the shape of the corpse on Hitchcock’s Vertigo poster – “Christian Shepherd. Really?” – Christian standing in front of a Unitarian stained glass window, the extraordinary closing minute wrapping the show full circle. It seems cheap to compare Christian to a God figure, and Jack to Jesus, but with his dying for our sins, and oh-so symbolic side wound, and six years of being beaten up, there’s no confusion over what was intended here. But it’s a start point, not an ending, and not finite – there were elements of the divine in Hurley, in Locke, hell – even Ben’s Judas had his transcendental moments.

A TV series lives or dies by its final episodes. It’s the final images, rewarding ardent fans, ideally. For six years, Lost fans lived together, and it doesn’t matter if you were faith or science, Jack or Locke, Jacob or Smokey. Lost was about the experience of being human. And in tapping into that (and realising the best way to hide it from it’s audience was in plain sight) Lindelof & Cuse can sit proudly as owners of a very special piece of TV.

582 comments:

1 – 200 of 582   Newer›   Newest»
XXXHardcore said...

First! ...Of the last episode. Surreal. Satisfying. Made sense. Perfect.

Mark Englert said...

Seconded! Perfection.

The Kharma Initiative said...

The strongest, emotional and most meaningful relationships we create in life will also help us accept our own death.

So are you all part of my flash-sideways?

Are we in it now?

Cosmically Yours

P.S. Meet at the Lamp Post

The Kharma Initiative said...

I think it's interesting that Locke created a world in which he not only had a good relationship with his father, but that his father was suffering and trapped - and John Locke caused it. An odd kind of retribution for what happened in real life? Is his father's 'spirit' also in the flash-sideways (as I continue to call them), or is he just a character pulled from John's memory? It will be interesting to re-examine the entire flash sideways knowing that they are self-created - if I understood that correctly.

Cosmically Yours

Zort70 said...

KI - Yes interesting to see why they created things like that in their own mind.

Why would Sayid create a world where he cannot be with the one he loves, is he punishing himself ?

******Spoiler warning for Ashes to Ashes********









Also for those that have seen the finale to Ashes to Ashes in the UK last Friday there are a lot of parallels to be drawn, it's quite interesting that two shows with really complex mysteries choose to use the same sort of ending.









****** End spoiler warning for Ashes to Ashes********

Weinbeeezy said...

Tomorrow starts a day with no refreshing, not having to worry about anything dropping, not having to expect some sort of news of spoilery; All we will have is our memories, memorabilia, and of course all these friendships we have made!

It's been a great ride, and this might be one of the last post on here! Thanks all!

-Weinbeeezy

Peeboo said...

Really, that explained nothing...NOTHING. Just made us all feel warm and fuzzy about them all meeting again.

Very clever with the bait and switch on the B story.

....very clever.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

I need to go back !~!!!! and watch it again. I'm still trying to process it all and make sure I got it all. But very tired, only got two hours sleep since I got home at 2:30 am and then had to get up a 5 am yawnnnn too much to do to take a nap. still sad it's over though

PDXCHawk said...

Remember: Beginning of season 6, the sideways world is launched AND the island is underwater. Jack was told he'd have to make a sacrifce. The sideways world would have happened if not for the exact events in the finale'. Events that were shaped and molded by interference by all the major players in the Lost mythology, in an effort to maneuver the outcome toward a continuation of the natural process of time.

Kyle Scribner said...

unless i'm misunderstanding things (and there's a great chance of this), i'm left feeling like LOST was the most perfect example of 'style over substance' i've ever seen. which is a shame to me, since all along, all 6 years, the hook for me has been how SUBSTANTIVE the show was. how much meaning was imbued in every little detail. but ultimately, it's revealed that what they were branding as meaningful was actually not. and that sucks. and i'm not buying that they did it as a statement. i think the showrunners got too clever for their own good along the way, but were clever enough to pull it together in a beautiful package, to make it feel satisfying enough but with inspection it falls way short (they're hoping to pull a long con, and from reading other sites' comments, it appears they pulled it off). All the amazing, beautiful things the show did -- writing-, acting-, plot-wise -- ultimately means a lot less to me b/c of this ending, as satisfying emotionally and stylistically (i mean, how can you knock a story with such perfect symmetry - eye opening to eye closing, right?) as it might be. style over substance. a shame.

Zort70 said...

I do feel that there is something missing, a small chunk of the story that needs addressing at some point. Maybe a bit more expansion on the struggle / manouvering that went on between Jacob and MIB to get to the final result.

I could see a movie being made that does just that, pulling together those sorts of elements.

But for now I'm happy with things as they are and can rest easy for the time being, the style was beautiful, and exceptional at times. The show runners connected with an audience like nothing I've ever seen before, both on and off screen, and the fan community the sprouted from this almost transcends anything that went out on screen.

Chrcowan said...

Wine is an acquired taste. As I've grown I've developed a patient taste for it. Wine lingers. Champagne, for all its bubbles, is soon exhausted. Here's to Lost - may it age well.

UnseenPresence said...

Here's my few comments:

1. As I've seen several places where people are unclear, it seemed crystal clear to me that the Island world WAS real. (I've seen lots of comments on various sites suggesting that everyone died on the plane at the beginning and the -entire thing- was a purgatory). I disagree with that really strongly. Island world was real. Sideways world was not an epilogue (thank God) but was actually an AFTERlogue, a place where they were able to meet up with those that were important to them and then resolve whatever they felt was necessary to move on and let go. (Interesting that such is -exactly- what Rose told Jack in LA X after the plane didn't crash--You can let go, now, Jack.)

2. While some people certainly gave themselves -other- problems in the Sideways world, -everyone- in the church resolved them. Sayid ultimately let go of his guilt; Locke did the same. Jack resolved his father issues by -being- a good father. Claire resolved her issues with being a mother, etc.

3. Those people who were not at the end church scene were the ones that were not that important -to the characters- (even if some of them -WE- might have felt were important).

4. I disagree pretty strongly with the idea that it was style over substance. I think the show ultimately went -very- deep in the end season, and while there are some small things that I would have wanted to see resolved, I was pretty darn happy with what ultimately felt like a strong, well-planned ending for everything.

5. Oh, and the plane that flew over Jack right before he died was the Ajira Airlines plane. NOT, as I have seen elsewhere, the original Oceanic flight.

And there we are. :) I expect disagreement a -lot- over this finale. Which in my mind makes it perfect Lost.

Kyle Scribner said...

unseen presence --

excellent points, and plotwise, i agree with your summation. but my point is this: when you write a story, you choose A over B for a reason. LOST showed us ultimately that MANY, MANY of their As could just as well have been Bs and it wouldn't matter. that's poor writing in the end, no matter how AMAZING those As were along the way.

Ray said...

@UP

I agree with all of your points completely. And as for the questions that remain, I really don't care to be honest. For me, the characters were the most important thing about the show, and I'm very happy that's what they chose to focus the finale on.

I LOVED it, and actually like how so many things are open ended because it allows us to keep our own theories and opinions about things.

Btw, I watched kimmel after and forced myself to watch the q&a online just so that I couldn't let go yet. When that was over, and I couldn't find anything else to read about LOST yet, it finally hit me. Now today I need to embrace "acceptance".

Zort70 said...

Yes, it wouldn't be LOST without a whole load of questions to be answered and theorised on.

throwfar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
throwfar said...

I loved the ending as well. Not because I feel like it was an "easy" way out but because I did not expect the outcome!

Davide said...

UnseenPresence: i'm TOTALLY with you.

Great post.

Amy Lynn said...

Loved 99% of The End. Strongly disliked the last 10 minutes, save the last scene. Hubby predicted they would pull a "Sixth Sense meets Titanic", and that's exactly what happened. The sideways as purgatory has been largely predicted since last summer, so I was a little miffed that I wasn't surprised.

The rest of it was just wonderful.

throwfar said...

How long will this site remain up and running?

Ray said...

@throwfar

Until we all meet up at a church, I think

throwfar said...

So....Who's the new leader of the island? Ben?

Did Ben die as well and was still unwilling to accept it at the end; or did he feel ashamed for his actionts and thats why he did not join them in the church? Or, is he still alive and is now running the island?

Amy Lynn said...

@throwfar, I think everyone in the purgatory was dead. Ben wasn't ready to move on. Maybe he was waiting for Alex and/or Danielle.

Ray said...

@Amy Lynn

That's how I interpreted it too.

Amy Lynn said...

I still don't completely understand the construction of the purgatory though. Why does David exist there? Why did Nadia marry Sayid's brother?

Ray said...

@Amy Lynn

I like to think the construction of David was a way to prove to Jack that he COULD have been a good father, when Jack thought so strongly that he wouldn't have been in his real life. I'll bet that was always something tormenting Jack, that if he hadn't messed it up with Kate during the Oceanic 6 years, would he have been a good father to Aaron. It was another thing he needed to reconcile with himself

As for Sayid, I'll admit I was initially "Noooo!" when the Shannon thing happened. However, i like it a lot more now. I like to think that its because Sayid never felt deserving of Nadia because of all the horrible things he did, so he let her move on with someone that won't hurt her. Instead, he ended up with Shannon - someone he had a clean slate with and was able to start things over anew. I predict this to be one of the more polarizing things about the finale, but its starting to grow on me.

My question - was Walt in the finale at all? I don't think I saw him, but I thought Darlton said in a recent interview that we would be seeing him. I feel bad for Michael if he is stuck as a whisper on the island for all eternity. Hopefully something allows him to pass on as well.

Amy Lynn said...

I didn't seen Walt, nor is MDK credited for the episode.

JGZ350 said...

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it, but I think I understand.

When I watched it the first time, I was a bit confused on the way it ended. I re-watched the last 30 minutes and then I got it.
What an incredible way to end a tremendous ride.

Too bad there couldn't be a spin off show of Hurley and Ben's adventures as the new Jacob and Richard.

Contrary to popular opinion, The End was very satisfying for me.

@UnseenPresence
Excellent comments. Especially the one about there being alot of disagreement over the way it ended.

Sam G said...

e-mail

Amy Lynn said...

OK, one more question, maybe someone can help me.

Does Aaron go to heaven as a baby? WHY?

Ray said...

Was Claire in the church with Aaron? I'll be honest, I don't remember. My mind was so all over the place at the point I couldn't pay close enough attention

Lisa-Maladylis said...

yeah Claire, Aaron and Charlie were there together.

Zort70 said...

Aaron being at the church surprised me, not because of the episode, but becuase I was watching the episode slightly delayed on my Sky+ (PVR) and it locked up. So I missed a few minutes of the episiode including the birth scene !

As if I needed an excuse to watch it again :-)

Amy Lynn said...

@Zort, wow, what a scene to miss. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Davide said...

Aaron was needed to permit Claire's full "let-go", i think, as was David.

Larry said...

@Amy -

The Aaron we saw at the Church was Claire's construction of Aaron in her sideways/purgatory/limbo/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. We are left to assume Aaron lived out his life in the "real world" - the reason he is shown with Claire is because it was through his birth and connection with Charlie that Claire was able to remember, let go and move on.

Make sense?

ioioos said...

As an episode, I loved it. Paced and emotional.

As a story ending, I found it frustrating. The writers didn't even bother to answer fundimental questions that drove the plot of the entire series.

Based on what we got, seasons 1 to 5 were pure filler. In fact, you could remove season 5 and half of season 6 (the flash sideways) and it would have made no difference to the story.

Amy Lynn said...

@Larry, I guess so.

Larry said...

@ioioos

I disagree - the entire story was one about relationships and redemption. In Season 5, you see Sawyer open himself up and be able to truly love Juliette for who she was, and it was through that love he was able to set himself free in the end. Seasons 1-5 continued what the pilot episode about - the interconnectedness of the passengers of flight 815, the decisions we make and how they impact our lives, the redemption of the human spirit...

Brilliantly written and perfectly executed.

Amy Lynn said...

I thought it was well executed, too, just predictably written. Whether that's good writing or bad, plenty of people guessed how it was going to end.

Ray said...

@Larry

Yeah, I like your thoughts on the Aaron thing.

I just rewatched the church scene and I was like 10 times more emotional the second time around, especially because my dog walked over and laid on my lap the exact same time Vincent laid next to Jack (almost eerie).

Larry said...

I doubt anybody had it pegged exactly as it was written. The idea that the group needed each other, untethered to time as showcased by the Hurley/Ben exchange regarding their leadership of the island, and how and why they would eventually get there - through the "remembrance" of the people and moments that touched their lives - it was beautiful. Technically, I don't think "purgatory" is the right term, and I think lumping Season 6's "sideways" together as "oh, the sideways was just purgatory" sells it short - it was much deeper than that.

capostar said...

That Olly poster has alot more meaning now...

Clay said...

@capostar

how so?

Davide said...

I like the Hurleywiththeankh thing in Stout's Lost print.
New Jacob rules. :D

CreedFeed said...

I think I liked the ending (still processing it lol) but it really only provided closure on the characters' lives and did not answer any other questions. While I won't go as far as others have said and call the ending a "cop out" it seems like if the ultimate goal of the writers was to just give us closure on the characters (how they find peace in the end of their lives before moving on) and not answer anything else, a majority of the twists and turns were then just filler material to spread out the show over 6 seasons.

The only real question I have regarding the final episode is why Ben did not join everyone in the church to "move on." What did he have to accomplish still by staying in the "purgatory" afterlife (whatever you want to call it)? His story line was not completed IMO.

Tim said...

If a lot of the show was "Filler" then I wish more shows could do "Filler" that well. I thought the whole thing was amazing and to be honest if they had spent the last 2 hours explaining to me all the mysteries of the Island, I wouldn't have liked it. I like to let my imagination run wild with the mysteries, I still get to wonder about things everytime I rewatch the show, but I know for the most part what happen to the people and I'm happy with that.

Tim said...

Plus Hurley and Ben ruling over the Island together is just a whole other show waiting to happen :)

Amy Lynn said...

If you listened to The Transmission podcast, I think Ryan and Jen got it right in saying the finale was a clip show that the audience desperately wanted.

capostar said...

@Clay, you notice the eye in the center? It's an eye in general, or Jack's eye. Then everything that makes up the experience on the island. I say it's more meaningful considering the eye was the closing point of the show.

Ray said...

@Zort,

btw you have a beautiful yard.

Jesse t said...

In season 2, when Shannon saw Walt dripping wet in the jungle, how did MIB (I'm assuming it was him) take over his body when he wasn't dead?

Amy Lynn said...

That wasn't MiB.

What happened to Zack and Emma?

Lisa-Maladylis said...

MIB had been smokey for a Looonnnnnggg time, don't forget that when we met Jacob and MIB, it was like 2000 years ago or so.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

Oh and why people wern't in the Church- like Cindy and kids... Maybe they wern't ready yet. Remember that Hurley commented on Anna Lucia about her not being ready or knowing yet. I'm sure everyone goes and meets there when they are ready so that's why they are not there yet.
Also, about why Sayid was with Shannion and Not Nadia, it seemed that they were all with the people they were with last. I mean, Sawyer left with Kate but she loved Jack and Sawyer loved Juliet. Shannon was the last on the island that Sayid loved and Libby was Hurleys love. etc etc..

Ray said...

@Amy Lynn

you didn't catch the Zak and Emma reconnection? They were at the concert and Emma dropped her Teddy bear. Then zak picked it up for her and they both "remembered" each other with several seconds of gripping flashbacks of walking through the jungle.. They were absent from the church scene, however, because they were on their way to wake up Cindi at the airport.

Amy Lynn said...

@Ray, thanks for that, LOL.

Just read that Adewale was offered a role in the finale, and turned it down.

Ray said...

Haha, no problem.

Yeah, I saw that too - very disappointed that's why he wasn't in it. Oh well

PessimisticLines said...

One thing I found very interesting was the stained glass window in the scene with Jack and his dad's coffin. It had all the major religious symbols on it: Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Judaism, Buddhism, and a WTF one: the DONKEY WHEEL. Am I misinterpreting that one? But if not, what did it mean? Lostism? A joke by the producers? I get the all roads lead to Heaven symbolism, but that one struck me as odd.

Amy Lynn said...

Got it. The wheel is a Buddhist religious symbol

Ray said...

@pessimisticlines

yeah, I think it was supposed to be the donkey wheel! Loved that too. I think it's just supposed to show that this sideways world isn't one particular religious view f the afterlife. That it applies to all religions, including whatever ancient ones existed on the island.

Ray said...

Or what Amy said!

dylansdad said...

I believe that Ben was waiting around for Alex.

I liked it and enjoyed so much of it, but for me it fizzled a bit in the end. I think they wrote a nice conclusion to the sideways storyline, and hoped that we would find it so emotional and moving that we wouldn't notice the fact that it wasn't really the best conclusion to six seasons of questions and mysteries.

And if the Sideways timeline was an imaginary purgatory created by characters with no memories of the Island, then why was the Island on the bottom of the ocean? The Island itself had nothing to do with the Sideways storyline this season and (most critically) nothing to do with the last ten minutes of the series--making the events of the last six seasons important only in that they brought the characters together.

ioioos said...

I think my main issue was the fact that Sayid didn't walk through the pearly gates with the love of his life; the wife who died in his arms.

Instead, he took the bimbo he banged on the island for a week! Bad writing!

Lisa-Maladylis said...

yeah a guy at the Lost party last night said the same thing- Look, the donkey wheel. But it's the Dharma wheel which is where the Donkey wheel came from I'm sure. Just like the Dharma symbol is a religious symbol as well.

Davide said...

Didn't zack and emma die at the beach 'cause of widmore's missiles in The last recruit? I thought so..


But, why wasn't doc artz "ready to go"? He died after a little buch of episodes, he does not deserve to "atone" all this time! :D

I'm very sorry about Mr. Eko too.

Amy Lynn said...

Two more, for fun:

Why is the island underwater in Purgatory?

What happens when you die in Purgatory?

Lisa-Maladylis said...

for all we know, that's just what one persons vision of the island looks like. I mean, Jack has a son in the side ways flash but he was also told he doesn't really have a son. so maybe Locke decided that the island was under water and that was how he saw it. No one said it was that way for everyone.

Amy Lynn said...

@Lisa-Maladylis, interesting idea, but doesn't make sense, logically. LA X was not told from one person's POV

Lisa-Maladylis said...

true but they also didn't say that everyone saw the island under the water, they just showed it and then when off of it. We saw David with Penny and Jack and everyone in the hospital but yet it was really only something Jack was seeing so who knows who's vision it was. They never did tell us, they just showed it to us.

Amy Lynn said...

@Lisa, not true. The AU/purgatory was everyone's vision. We were told that last night.

Ray said...

Yeah, I don't think we'll ever all agree what the sideways world actually is...but I guess thats the point! We can come up with our own theories that we are most happy with and don't have to worry about it being debunked. I just like to think it was a place where the island was out of their lives so they could focus on finding the things that were most important - each other. Putting the island underwater is a good way to make clear to the viewer that its not really part of the character's lives in sideways.

As for when people die, I was wondering the same thing - or what happens to people like Helen. I think it might be okay to assume that not everyone in Sideways was experiencing the same "sideways" world as the castaways. The sideways we saw was a place that was really most important for the castaways themselves (and us). Maybe people like Keamy don't even get a Sideways, and they are just whispers on the island like Michael. But for the purposes of having the castaways pass a test and move on, they needed to be involved in the sideways world.

Also, someone said it earlier (Lisa I think?) that Ben is probably waiting for Alex and Rousseau. I agree with that, because he probably is going to wait until they "remember" too and will leave with them. Alex was Ben's baggage. Hey, maybe he'll even make the trip with Widmore ;)

Team Jack said...

Perfect ending for me. Being a hardcore Team Jack fan for 6 years now, I am beyond thrilled that it began and ended with him. I also loved all the moving montages when characters reunited. Absolute perfection and totally made bawl, repeatedly. It was exactly what I needed to help me try to say goodbye to this amazing show.

PS With amazing action/fight sequences, sentimental montages, questions answered and character resolution,
it really did have something for everyone. Kudos to the amazing cast and crew.

Team Jack said...

I also wondered about Walt and brought that up at the Jay & Jack podcast finale. Damon made comments (I believe in at least two diff interviews-but all the events are blurring together!) that not only implied or confirmed Walt's return, but also that MDK shot footage. Originally I assumed Kimmel's alternate endings would be real like the ones shown on GMA years back and perhaps that's what Damon was referring to. They were actually parodies and didn't include Walt. I'd bet money Damon was just trying to avoid backlash and that's why he said that. Personally it's not a huge thing that they couldn't put him in. That being said I wish Damon had just refused to answer it, cause his responses weren't accurate. *shrugs* Nothing new here though. Jo Rowling did it with the Potter books as well. Though in her defense she changed part of the story later and the clue given from a fan question asked became irrelevant. Lesson learned: no spoilers from creators! Lol

As for flash sideways I see it as not a real place or a purgatory but more of a psychological thing. I completely agree with previous comments regarding David as well as Anthony Cooper. Jack needed to know he could be a good dad unlike his own father. Locke needed his father to answer for things in some fashion to make peace with him. I feel like sideways is the character's minds wrestling with their issues and when they finally accept and let go, they are at peace, surrounded by (the people they) love. I don't think you even need to think in terms of heaven, death, purgatory, etc. as some people are able to achieve this peace before they die.

The comments about Nadia, Shannon and Sayid make sense in this as well. Sayid always was so haunted by his days as a torturer, but most of that was because of Nadia. Having her married with kids to someone else, gave her a chance to have a normal life. I'm sure this is what Sayid would have wanted/pictured for her. I dunno, it all just seems to really fit for me. It's like all the characters in the end scene passes their own tests and those excluded are still sorting things out in their minds. It really makes sense for Ben after seeing him with Alex & Danielle. To know what he did to both of them and how to make peace with that... That would take some effort.

Team Jack said...

Oddly enough I actually posted something else first and unless my iPhone is acting up, it's disappeared for me. Ugh.

Anyways, original comment was basically that I loved the ep and thought it had something for everyone. And beginning and ending with my boy Jack... makes me a very happy camper. Though now I guess his motto needs alteration? Live together, die alone, reunite in the end

CreedFeed said...

What was the point of the scenes shown during the closing credits? Was that just to remind us how the story started or?

Amy Lynn said...

@CreedFeed, not sure, but it was totally confusing. Most non-internet obsessed people took it to mean everyone died in the crash of Oceanic 815

CreedFeed said...

@AmyLynn yea I've read that and don't agree with it at all.

Amy Lynn said...

I don't agree with it either, but that footage was VERY misleading.

Just Thinking said...

Hi all-first post Lost post!

I loved whole episode like you AL- up to "I'm dead"- then yes, it was -oh- OK- you're all dead. I had a kind of flat response, and I think the 2000 folks at J&J the J&J party did too.

Now I'm trying to fit all the pieces into that frame. It seems that the island must be a place where dead souls are interacting to resolve their lives and move on. As Jacob said-all the people he brought to the island are dead.

Mel kept saying that it never made sense for people to survive the crash-hence his surreal take on it all. But what about Kate etc on Ajira- will they "die" later like Jack and go to the sideways?

Seems we have to accept there is no actual "time" involved-Hurley & Ben also would do more as the island protectors before moving to
the next level.

BTW- great call Zort on pulling the plug to make the island sink!

Ray said...

I think it was just supposed to bring you back to the beginning, and the point of showing no people was because we just watched them all "move on". Just supposed to be symbolic, but I can see how some people could confuse it and take it literally

Zort70 said...

JT, when I said that I thought they couldn't be so literal, but it just shows what I know !

Yes the crash site scene was a bit odd, like they couldn't think of anything else so they put it there.

However didn't we get told early on in an episode that the crash site and plane, including the engines, fuselage, etc, got covered by the sea for some mysterious reason.

Amy Lynn said...

JT, I was wondering about the Jay and Jack audience response.

rtfarr1 said...

@JT:
Christian said that everything that happened on the island was real and the flash sideways was a place for them to go after death to resolve all that had happened during their lives...

capostar said...

adding to rtfarr1, that might also explain why Ana Lucia was not "ready yet".

Amy Lynn said...

Did anyone catch how Ben got out from under the tree?

ChrisL said...

Just watched. Alice and I need time to compose ourselves. A year or so should do it.

Zort70 said...

Hi all, I've added a short review / musing about LOST from Ben to the main page if you want to read it.

Ben said...

only because I couldn't fit it all in the comments.... I loved it. So much.

Mark Englert said...

@Amy it wasn't show how Ben got un-pinned... I just assumed the ground gave way during a quake and he was able to squirm out.

The Kharma Initiative said...

peeboo, Lost just explained the nature of reality and the universe "all of us* live in. How much more do you want explained?

You and I live in a world dominated by science and reason, where coincidences are dismissed, and finding purpose is a struggle. But all of it is a shadow of our true UNDERLYING reality. One in which, perhaps, some people can speak to and see the dead, where others can live without aging, where islands can travel through time, and where personal connections are important, even destined.

Meet at the Lamp Post.

Unseenpresence, make sure you're there. You and I need to collaborate on something. We saw the story the same way - really, how could it be any other way? Email me, please!

Cosmically Yours

ChrisL said...

Was that written by our Ben? You Ben?

UnseenPresence said...

Hey, just as a light-hearted question:

Anyone hate the finale so much they want to give me/trade me/sell me for $1 their Locke's Secret print? :)

Oh, and TKI--I'll shoot you an email.

Ray said...

@Ben,

Just had time to read your Finale thoughts - very nice. Thanks for sharing!

Team Jack said...

Someone refresh my memory, when exactly did Jacob say he only brought dead people to the island?! I thought it was people who were alone, no ties, flawed, etc?

UnseenPresence said...

Also, in an email I just wrote the following, and thought it was worth saying to a larger audience as well:

Yes, there were questions I would have liked to see answered.

Ultimately, however, I had decided before the season even began that Lost wasn't -going- to answer all of them. And last night proved once and for all what I'd thought for a long time--the show was, in the end, Jack's story. Had it been Ben's story, we'd have had all sorts of answers to the island....and all sorts of questions about the Losties' journey. Had it been Jacob's story, we'd have had all sorts of answers about the 'rules', but would have almost -no- information about what the people ON the island were even about.

It's a perspective thing. And I'm okay with that.

****

Life is always about mystery. We don't know why things happen, or can't explain what we DO know happened. Someone gets sick, someone wins the lottery, someone's marriage dissolves, someone finds love, someone hurts people, someone can't get over their past...and we so rarely know why.

Stories in TV and film normally fix that. They give us a logical chain of events, so we know -exactly- why A--->B--->Z. And (especially in American cinema/TV) we've gotten so used to it that it becomes our expectation. There must be an explanation for everything.

Lost returned to what storytelling is -really- about. An attempt to make meaning of a world we cannot understand, ever, not completely. It refused to fall into the obvious--which is why we argued so long about what was important, what was not, what mattered and what it all MEANT.

That same refusal to make it easy is why the finale was -exactly- Lost. There is a very large difference between "We aren't telling you what A means, not fully" and "A could have just as easily been B". I agree with an earlier post that B is lazy storytelling.

There was nothing lazy about last night's finale. It told -exactly- the story it wanted to tell, in a season that did -exactly- what it wanted to do. And just as some earlier episodes this year were great for some and terrible for others, so too will this finale be. Some will love it, some will hate it.

That's a perspective thing, too. And that is what Lost was shooting for.

In fact, I've just decided it was a better finale after writing this than I thought before.

Team Jack said...

Also, I thought the island was the reality? On Kimmel he commented to Foxy that he thought the island was his reality and Jack's test. I totally agree. Did I miss something? Occassionally was hard to hear & might have missed it. Also, I was so exhausted. Feel like I could sleep for a week.

UnseenPresence said...

Kimmel was partially wrong as he also suggested that it was -all- a 'virtual' scenario. Fox clearly thought Kimmel was wrong but was polite in his response.

Island world (IMO) did really happen.

Ray said...

I mentioned this before, but yeah I also agree that the island world and everything non-sideways happened.

Doc Jensen's first part of his recap is up (next part posts tomorrow). I always enjoy reading his stuff:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html

Martyn said...

:'(

Martyn said...

@Zort...

Me and my family kept saying to each other "pub!"

I welled up a little at the end, i will admit. Totally saw the eye closing as the final shot as soon as I saw the shoe in the bamboo.

Right, I think I need to recover.

VERY happy with the ending. My mom on the other hand...

The Kharma Initiative said...

There's an image of the contents and case of Lost - The Complete Collection here. There's an even clearer image in the latest Lost Untangled here.

Looks like it comes with a senet game, an ankh, and an amazing case among other things!

Cosmically Yours

Zen12345 said...

"The trick was making us not care...." Right, speak for yourself. Trick failed.

Chrcowan said...

My "aha" moment came today when I was driving home. I didn't understand the ending at first, but as I was listening to a radio review I became aware of something. To me I think the entire last scene was a metaphor for the relationship between the show and the audience and the existential tension of human experience. That is, reality is absurd and doesn't make sense, but of course as human beings living in a social reality, we have to create some meaning out of it. This doesn't mean of course that we shouldn't try to make meaning, but simply that our efforts are always somewhat futile. Hence, we will try to make meaning out of all of the shows mysteries, but ultimately the greatest trick was showing us that we need to appreciate life and love and the journey along the way. That is we must, "let go" of our search for the perfect end and love what the show is. And the show is a cast of characters and the relationship we, the audience, formed with them. We are going through, in real time, exactly what the characters are going through. We are struggling against this need for direction and answers. Yet, there is no ultimate, perfect, clean, logical end in the abstract. Reality is embodied and very, very messy. Kierkegaard said that, "like must be lived forward, but can only be understood backwards;" and I think that applies here. I'll have to watch it one more time to get the actual words right, but if you just listen to the phrasing at the end, it's basically about how we need to let go of the show and let it be what it is.

For me, the central idea of the show is that the meaning of life is the people we spend time with (the cast of characters) and that the journey is more important than the destination (the plot with many unanswered questions). That's just my 2 cents and it gave me one last, "wow!" moment.

JPL said...

And so it comes full circle. Even after watching the finale and reading the comments above - many so well thought out and so many that capture the essence of what we all experienced last night - there are questions.

They'll remain unanswered, most having to do with the mythology and secrets of the island, but I feel that the most important question that was answered is that the show ended giving closure to the the characters that we as fans needed.

We'll be able speculate and theorize about those things left unsaid, but isn't better that way? This allows for no right answer or wrong answer.

In life, there is a beginning and an ending, but the important thing is the journey to to get us from that beginning to that ending. For six 6 years, we were allowed to journey to someplace special and for that I am thankful.

Today I am both :) and :( but there's always tomorrow.

mrtibbs said...

Just finished watching the finale. Need to watch it again. Lots of nice things to read here, but need to watch it without being quite as emotional. I think they did what they set out to do and made me care less about the details. My mind resembles the olly moss piece, in bits.

Ben said...

yes it was my thoughts.
And by "tricking us not to care", if you really care more for finding out what happened to Walt than what we saw, then your asking for something that was never going to happen.

I think it's already been a bit overanalysed - it seemed pretty clear the island happened. Flash sideways was a waiting room / purgatory, at a non-specific future point where they all found each other and went on to "whatever is next" together. But what happened, happened.

Bed now.

Rorschach said...

I loved the ending. Wrapped up the show very nicely.

For those complaining about not enough answers, remember sometimes the answer is not as good as the mystery. Wasn't "The Force" much cooler before we were told that it wasn't some mystical power in the universe, but rather just some crap that lived in people's blood?

Amy Lynn said...

I don't care so much about the details, or the answers, but the lack of narrative clarity in the BIG PICTURE.

In the end, what did they in fact, die for? (And by they, I mean people whose deaths were directly because of the island/Jacob/MiB - Sun/Jin/Jack/Sayid).

We don't know. After six seasons, the importance of the island, perhaps the show's most interesting character, is still completely a mystery. That's not a minor detail, or a nitpick. That's a huge deal.

theotherben said...

It's been great guys!
The finale was amazing! I feel fully satisfied with how it turned out! Hopefully will get something from this summer/comic con. We need to keep this going through the prop auction and the Lost University Master's program!

Until then, I guess all I can say is thanks so much everyone! It's been one hell of a ride!

reAnimated said...

I laughed, and boy did I cry. Simply brilliant.

Mark Englert said...

I thought the importance of the island was pretty clear... did the simple cork example given by Jacob to Richard not make an impression?

The island is a stopper for some great evil escaping into the world. If it's not protected, everyone dies, or at least turns into something like zombie Sayid.

Jack saved the whole world, really.

Amy Lynn said...

From the "never assume" column.

My hubby, as some of you know, teaches musical theatre. Now although he is perfect in every way, he assumed that everyone saw LOST last night, and nobody relied on their DVR. He suggested tonight that someone struggling with their musical end it with "everyone dying and meeting up in a church on the way to heaven, like on LOST"

Apparently a HUGE outcry came up in the room, and several people were very unhappy that he had spoiled their DVRing.

Mark Englert said...

@Amy Haha! That'll teach them for not watching it live.

"Today, in school, we learned not to wait to watch something that we don't want spoiled."

The Kharma Initiative said...

I respectfully disagree with Amy Lynn, and anyone else wondering about the BIG PICTURE - re: the importance of the Island. Here's a what if:

What would you do if *you* were stranded on a strange island, where you grew to discover that immortality exists, people can speak to the dead, time travel is possible, and good and evil may possibly be real tangible things? You know, if you left your current day-to-day life and discovered that would you believed to be impossible actually was reality somewhere?

Would that make the island important to you, especially if you understood that *you* were among the people entrusted to protect it?

To the characters, why these things were possible on the island wasn't as important as the fact that they were possible there. That was made the island important - to them. Like Rose and Bernard - Rose was healed, they could live together - on the island - that's all that mattered to them. I don't think they spent much effort trying to figure out how come.

The island is not a complete mystery.

Cosmically Yours

ChrisL said...

Ben, excellent thoughts.

I've decided not to be troubled by anything unanswered.

I honestly thought it was a perfect end to the journey.

Ben said...

me too! the island was explained just fine for my liking, and like I tried to say in that VERY rambly post, it doesn't need explaining further. Here was something that was beyond our understanding. Farraday assumed it was electrical, Locke that it was spiritual, but it was something of huge power that could potentially destroy the world.

If I told you that you'd been watching a programme about an island with a giant electromagnet under it, you'd be disappointed. I'd rather the exact specifics of it were open to interpretation. The finale changed up the show to be more impressionistic - little moments all coming together to form a new meaning. I get that some won't be down with that, but I dug the hell out of it.

ChrisL said...

Ditto Ben. It made any remaining unknowns irrelevant to me. I just broke down though trying to explain the spirituality of it someone I work with who doesn't watch. Not good.

Zort70 said...

The question answered all along is are you a man of science or a man of faith.

In the later stages of LOST, the man of science was ignored to a certain extent and a lot of what we saw was pushed to the faith side.

It all fits with the whole religious undertones of the show, but my inner geek is telling me I want more science.

Zort70 said...

Morning Chris, yes I'm not complaining, I won't be able to look at a field of bamboo and a labrador again without shedding a tear :-)

Martyn said...

Right, in a better state this mornig than last night.

Just wow, it was a perfect finale for me. Sure, it didn't answer anything but this seasons story arc but god was it good. Agree with a lot if the comments, on island real, plane is ajira, etc.

One thing I thought we'd find out is what the island is, like Richard asked Hurley. Oh well. The lost live poster with jack will mean a lot more now, as foes the olly moss poster.

@Ben...

Great summary!

I never have believed that writers intend on all this deep emotion and philosohy tbh, I feel yet again, it's their ability to let our imaginitions create our own assumptions. They won't ever tell us anything. Best way about it.

As for concluding our characters, I was hoping for a harry potter style ending where we get a flashforward and see claire with her mom and Aaron and what Kate and sawyer accomplished off island.

Jack, Hurley and Ben I felt concluded tbh. Loved the closing eye ending. Everytime I think about it, it makes me sad. And vincent lying next to jack, like Odysseus returning home with his dog dying once he saw him.

Just a beautiful ending and a perfect clip show too.

Zort70 said...

Anyone that has doubts about the finale, I suggest they read this

An article on the spoiler TV forums, supposedly from someone on the production team / writer staff.

Zort70 said...

Martyn, if we had a flash forward for time after they left island I think it would have taken away from the impact of the final scenes.

Maybe they could have tried to mix some of the Sideways / limbo stuff with real future stuff just to mess with us.

Mark Englert said...

@Zort the article on Spoiler TV makes some great points, but if they really use that excuse for Ben not entering the church, then what was Desmond, Penny or Libby doing in there?

I think it simply made more sense for Ben to not be in the church... that wasn't his group to be moving on with.

Zort70 said...

ABC really ought to coordinate it's marketing dept.

Guess what they are selling LOST inspired silk screened prints !!

Click Here

To commemorate the final season of LOST, award-winning graphic designer (and die-hard LOST fan) Ty Mattson has created 8 original prints inspired by the show. The series celebrates the mystery and mythology of LOST in a modern, minimal style reminiscent of another era.

Each poster is a unique hand-pulled, silk-screen print measuring 18x24 on 100lb. white cover.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

good morning all. I kinda figured they showed the plane at the end as a kinda closure. Kinda like after a tornado comes through a town, you see the news of all the people crying, reconnecting with there family and then the news crew does a drive through of the town to show what it looks like after it's all done and people are not there. That's kinda what it felt like to me. I also wondered if it was just the LOST crew showing what it looked like when they were done with the show too. I saw blue tarps on some things and I don't think they had those in the show so I thought it could be them just showing what it looked like when everyone was done filming. I wasn't sure which it was but either idea works for me.

Zort70 said...

It's kind of like showing the set from a play with no actors in.

Davide said...

What about (my) prints acquiring significance after the finale aired?

I think Stout's LOST is more valuable, 'cause of HUrley carrying the Ankh (as new Protector of the island) and its presence of THE CHARACTERS and, behind them in importance, the rest of the show.

Walt's Kidnapping is less significant: they just forgot about Walt.

Taylor's Smokey regains value, as Smokey is one of the most important characters of all the 6 seasons.

Danger's Black Rock isn't so much important, it was a "fan made" mystery that tptb didn't really care about.

Moss'LOST is very significant. It says that ALL is behind personal POV (the eye), just like LOST ended. I'm happy i bought it.

:)

Lisa-Maladylis said...

exactly Zort, that's what I was trying to say. lol Gosh, I'm still tired from my staying up so late Sunday night ! 2.5 hours sleep and I still can't seem to catch up !

Ben said...

that article is excellent. Far more calmly put together and clear than anything I rambled out! I have even more respect for them all now.

Ben said...

and Davide, as for my prints, I feel as if they all gained value, as I loved the show, and have some of my favourite iconic moments from it, rendered by amazing artists, to keep as long as I wish. Walt's Kidnapping, Jacob's Cabin, The Black Rock, even Lauren gregg's smokey going for a walk n' poop with Ben will all be fond memories of one of my favourite TV shows. Olly's Lost print ties the whole shebang together. I bought them for that reason, which feels good.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

very nice summation Ben, great write up up what I thought too but couldn't put into words so well. Thanks !!

Zort70 said...

It's like a lot of us were saying during the original poster series, that the value of the prints may go up or down, but to us they have more meaning because of the emotional connection we have with the characters and the show.

Amy Lynn said...

Article is cool, but already debunked as a fake.

ChrisL said...

Thanks for that link Zort. Excellent.

ChrisL said...

Interesting nonetheless Amy and a rounded explanation no?

Martyn said...

@Zort...

True, the eye closing was a powerful scene. Vest left to our imagination!

Amy Lynn said...

Sure, it's an interesting explanation.

I was listening to a bunch of the LOST podcasts (Black Rock, Transmission), and they all say it better than me. The last 15 minutes or so insults our intelligence as an audience. The episode is wonderful until then, and then takes a huge nosedive into "who cares" bad writing.

ChrisL said...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to avoid that sort of criticism. It left me feeling fine and very satisfied and I don't want that ruining. I'm normally rational but if that episode had flaws i'm happy to stick my head in the sand and pretend they don't exist. I just loved it.

seaque said...

Everyone will choose their own way to reconcile the ending of Lost. I've found mine and I'm satisfied. Insulted is last last word I'd use to describe what I feel about the ending. It was beautiful.

Amy Lynn said...

If you haven't seen Titanic or Sixth Sense, maybe it was beautiful. I don't know. As soon as I realize it was a ripoff of other famous endings, I lost interest.

Zort70 said...

I don't feel the ending was a cop out and was bad at all, it touched all the right emotional buttons and gave me peace and hope.

However I do think the method to get to that point was possibly overly laboured and looking back we could have had a bit more substance and closure before the finale.

Zort70 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amy Lynn said...

I just wish the writers had gone for something OTHER than a gimmick. Not every series has to end with a gimmick.

Zort70 said...

Looking back at several films and TV series, including the one I posted a spoiler for above (which ended two days before, this sort of ending has been used.

It doesn't diminish this ending as it was done so well.

Amy Lynn said...

Zort, that's where I respectfully disagree. It wasn't done well. When LA X aired, a bunch of people said, "Oh, it's purgatory, they're all dead, the FS is epilogue" and the writers denied it.

And then, the fans were right. That's exactly what that was.

How is that "well done"?

Zort70 said...

I can see where you are coming from Amy, and I could see different possibilities, however we got the one we saw and I'm emotionally satisfied.

Maybe the extra bits we will get on the DVD / BluRay will give it some more meaning to everyone ?

I wouldn't put it past Darlton / ABC to do some sort of extra story leading up to the box set release that helps everyone let go.

seaque said...

There's a term in the Vonnegut book, Cat's Cradle that has helped me. He uses the fictional term, karass. It means a network of people that, unknown to them, are linked. In the book, they are linked to do God's will. In Lost they are linked to move-on in the afterlife or new lives for an eternity. Hence, the ankh that Hurley has in the flame in the Stout poster.

Just the thought that our beloved Losties are destined to move on "together" for eternity is okay by me.

Zort70 said...

Darlton have a history of responding to fan comment so if they hear enough voices they may be stired into something extra.

Ray said...

After everything I've read the past two days, both praise and criticism, nothing has really changed my point of view or feeling about that finale. I still love it.

@Amy Lynn

I've seen both Sixth Sense and Titanic and don't think of this ending as a cop-out or ripped off. This was Darlton's vision, and they came up with a way we could get a happy resolution for all the characters we know and love. They knew it couldn't happen in life, so it must happen in death.

Side note: Anything they would have done in this finale, someone would have been able to say "so and so did this before". Its like what modern day entrepreneurs say: "Everything has been done before, you just need to find out how to do it better".

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I can understand that some people are disappointed or want more answers or thought some of the ep was filler - but if they kept it safe during this finale, things would have been bland and I don't think we would have appreciated it as much. They knew this would be polarizing and I think it served its purpose.

I don't think anything is going to sway me to think otherwise at this point. I thought it was very beautiful and wonderful. But that's the beauty of this show, it allows for different interpretation and expectations from the eye of the beholder. Again, I'm sorry some of you feel some things were off - I just feel a little differently about it.

Amy Lynn said...

@Ray, again, my main issue is not that it was done before, but that it was gimmicky. If you can walk into a room and spoil the end of LOST in one sentence (they were all dead), that's an issue.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

I don't agree Amy. Just because fans guessed the ending doesn't make it not worthy. I mean, isn't that why we theorize ? If it's so terrible that people guessed it right then why were they guessing ? It just doesn't make sense that that would be a bad thing all of the sudden. IMHO

Amy Lynn said...

@Lisa, no, it's not bad that people guessed it. But it's bad that they had written themselves into a corner, and then lied about it.

Zort70 said...

Amy, I disagree that they are all dead.

They are all dead at some point in their lives, like we all will be. The FS was a mechanism of getting them to accept their deaths and move on.

On the island they are all alive (until they die of course), and some leave the island on the Ajira plane.

Hurley and Ben stay behind and live maybe for 10 minutes after the finale aired maybe for 2000 years like Jacob.

Ray said...

@Amy Lynn

But they were only all dead in the sideways. I don't think that as gimmicky. I also don't think it takes away from anything that happened on the island and politely disagree that "they were all dead" describes the end of LOST. Really, the sideways world is something to appreciate after everything we have seen on the island and the end of the show- its there for the fans so we get character resolution. So that somewhere in the back of our minds we know "they're all gonna be okay". For me, the show ends with Jack's death and the sideways world is like a short story or epilogue given to us by Darlton.

Amy Lynn said...

@Zort, Hurley did not stay behind.

And all of the characters were definitely dead in the last ten minutes of the show.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

I don't think I consider it lying at all. I mean it's like spending 6 years saving up for a special gift for someone and when they guess what it is, are you going to say yeah, your right, lets forget the rest since you guessed ? It was a mystery and if someone tells you the end, the mystery is gone. I would have done the same thing as I'm sure you would if you wrote a mystery and someone guessed the end of it before you were done showing all of it.

mrtibbs said...

I think Zort means on the island, as protectors

Amy Lynn said...

I was talking about what happened in the last 10 minutes of the show. They are all dead.

Limbofunk said...

Isn't the end summed up as 'Jack saved the island'?

Amy Lynn said...

@Limbofunk, sure, but that's inconsequential. There's no danger to the island anymore, or the world. If the island sank, nothing bad would happen, since MiB was already dead.

seaque said...

The sideways life was a gift...an extension of the powers of the island. It allowed them to complete their redemption(s) and move on.

Amy Lynn said...

I just read this on Lostpedia, and it sums up my thoughts REALLY well:

Heck I'll even go as far as claiming that this ending is so generic that it would fit in just about everywhere. With minimal modifications I can imagine it can be the ending to any show. Desperate Housewives, Sex and the City, A-Team, Star Trek, Chuck, The Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, you name it. Go ahead ridicule, but you know it's true.

Then there are the people who suddenly act like this was beautiful and sentimental, oh what a great ending... It was all love and the bond they had... wow so beautiful. These people make me sick to the bone!

Oh how fast we forgot about the mystery hunting we did over the past 6 years. This show is classified by ABC as Drama, Mystery and Sci-Fi. Okey the drama part I get but what about mystery and sci-fi? This ending isn't fair towards us (and guessing from the polls on this site "us" is about 50% of the fanbase) who watched the show for the mystery. What is the purpose of creating a mystery if you're not going to reveal it in the end? It's the same as Sherlock Holmes going "Elementary my dear Watson, but I'm not telling".

If you're not going to reveal the mystery then what is the point in creating them?

mrtibbs said...

I still have to watch this again to take it all in. But after the first watch and some time to let it digest I really dig it. It was especially poignant for me because I lost someone very special last year who was really into Lost. I was thinking all through this last season "X would've loved this". I'm pretty agnostic when it comes down to the afterlife and so on. So, in the closing scenes it left me feeling uplifted, and somewhere deep down restored a little bit of faith.

Bravo I say, bravo.

Zort70 said...

I think the point about them being dead is that as Christian said, some died before some died after, the place they were in was timeless so they could all move on together.

A lot of what we saw and didn't see has to be thought about and ruminated on in our own minds, we have to let go in our own ways.

I'll be happy to see all of you in my own personal limbo before moving on.

Limbofunk said...

I guess in the end, all our lives are inconsequential. I perceived the 'light' of the island as something similar to the way to heaven (especially since when the doors to the church were opened, the light began to pour in), so if Jack (or Desmond, or anyone throughout the mythos of the island who at one point or another saved the island from being destroyed) failed to save the island by returning the light there would be no sideways flash/no redemption and everything would just cease to be...at least that's what 'Mother' warned.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

Wow Amy, that is just totally negative. I loved the ending, thought it was fantastic and to this day can't shake the feeling of how great it was and how it made me feel. - Kinda all warm and fuzzy and well, happy. It reminds me of everyone that was unhappy the posters had the cast on them more than the story line and too many being sold when last fall everyone was complaining because they wanted more cast and more posters to be sold. You just can't please everyone ! If you did, no one would be watching anything else

seaque said...

Very nice, Limbofunk.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

ok, got stuff to do now. I'm off for a while.

seaque said...

mrtibbs, very sorry to hear about your loss. It is nice to think that you are a part of your friends "karass" and you will see them again before moving on.

mrtibbs said...

That's exactly what I like about Lost, we can interpret it in our own way, down to our own beliefs/theories/faith. rather than be spoon fed. Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes finished in the uk last week, and by being more explicit and obvious they kind of spoilt things.

(thanks seaque)

Just Thinking said...

Lo again-sorry- had to run off yesterday to move hotels in California- no internet for awhile.

I read 2 reviews yesterday- The LA times and USA today. Seems like the Times thought the end missed by focusing on just the romantic and letting the mysteries go, and USA thought it focused on love and was just right.

The Times also thought the island story wasn't real, and USA thought it was I believe.

That makes a big difference to me-My initial thought was that they all just died in the crash, and constructed fantasy island together, so to speak. Christian tells Jack that everything he experienced was real- but that could have meant that in a way everything that goes into your brain has some reality- in that it is your experience- even, say, an hallucination.

However, if they intended that Jack's one and only real life did end in sacrifice for the real world that I live in, then maybe the end will mean more when I watch it again.

Amy Lynn said...

@JT, for the record, there's a huge difference between the New York Times and USA Today.

Amy Lynn said...

Correction: LATimes. Although the NYTimes didn't like it, either.

Just Thinking said...

Yes, as overall newspapers- but this is just one person's take- and the point really was weather the island experience was real.

Zort70 said...

I for one am on the side of the island life being real, rather than in someones imagination (especially Vincents !)

Zort70 said...

Not being real on the island is too much like the old snowglobe argument.

Just Thinking said...

That should be "whether". I didn't sleep well- woke up in the middle of the night thinking of the island!

seaque said...

JT-I'm going to take Christian's words at face value. They wouldn't have Christian mince words this late in the game. I like to think that their island lives were real.

Just Thinking said...

And- BTW- I got to ask Michael Emerson a question at the J&J Q&A! Starstruck! Tried to catch him for an autograph- but he snuck out a secret door.

Amy Lynn said...

@JT, jealous! Michael Emerson is the best.

ChrisL said...

Zort said: I'll be happy to see all of you in my own personal limbo before moving on.

Be careful what you wish for Zort ;-)

Just Thinking said...

It was great AL. He answered questions for a long time after coming out to present the keys to the Dharma Van for the video contest winner. He did a bit of Ben for the lyrics to "My favorite Things"- lol.

We see all the presidential candidates in my neck of the woods- but not TV folk- so it was great fun.

Patrick said...

Why would Darlton, as the storyteller, what to ruin the ending for the viewers by telling them at the beginning of the season, "Oh, yep, you're right!"? The sideways were used as a dramatic storytelling tool to round out these characters lives, and I far prefer that type of diversion in the season as opposed to getting that time devoted to the mechanics of the mythology.

I really don't get the Titanic comparisons outside of both are drenched in emotion at the end. I'm surprised more people aren't comparing Lost's finale to Six Feet Under's as we are actually shown each characters death in SFU, yet there was not this much complaining, per se. Darlton, and other writers have said for all six years it is a show about these characters and the fact they chose to tell those stories with the mythology as a backdrop is their choice. The fact that a majority of the audience clings to the mythology aspect of the show is their fault, not the producers. The fact that ABC may have promoted the more popular mythology aspect of the show is ABC's fault and part of the promotional machine that is in place.

I'm surprised no one is commenting on the exceptional work of director Jack Bender. Bender is my favorite Lost director and he outdid himself on this one. Supposedly he's involved in some new series this fall and I can't wait to see what he does with it. And also, lets not forget Michael Giacchino's work this year, especially in the finale. No one can drum up emotion and panic in such quick succession, and he too outdid himself this season.

ChrisL said...

Agreed Patrick, Bender and Giacchino rock.

Just Thinking said...

True Patrick, from the beginning it was always about the characters, but it was also always about the mysterious monster stomping through the jungle and grabbing the pilot out of the cockpit. Maybe they got a bit carried away with that element if they didn't intend to resolve most of it. specially if we are supposed to accept it as real.

Ben said...

I felt the end was really well handled. I watch a LOT of TV and film, and have seen pretty much everything mentioned above. I really hated the Battlestar Galactica ending (SPOILER WARNING) for the spiritual aspect. Starbuck being an angel was too convenient - there had been no references to this aspect in the show, really. The Sixth Sense shocked nicely, but again, I saw it coming.

The ending here made perfect sense, and was clearly explained by the characters (the island happened, this is a limbo space, at an unspecified time when they have all died, probably several years in the future) where they have begun to reconnect, and what we have watched is these people realising this, and moving on together. Now that could tap into Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Egyptian beliefs etc - I don't care. It's a powerful, theologically based story ending, that proved cathartic at just the right level. Handled differently it could have been Titanic or Battlestar Galactica - overwrought, po-faced gravitas. Instead what we got was a celebration of life in death, one which as I said yesterday was extraordinarily well judged. And that impressed me more than the story dynamic.

With that said, that makes the whole show "their" (the Lostaways) story. Rendering a lot of other stuff inconsequential. I'm sure ABC will smell the ca$h and flog some backstory stuff out of it later, but for now I like that the finale was so fitting.

Amy Lynn said...

NYTimes

“The End” exemplified how pedestrian the action in “Lost” became over the years, a falloff that began even in Season 1. There was nothing to make you tense up in the scenes of Jack and Locke fighting on the cliff or of boulders rolling around as the island threatened to disintegrate. (One exception: Kate telling Sawyer, “I’ll see you at the boat,” and leaping off the cliff into the ocean. But that’s a hard scene to mess up.)

Just Thinking said...

AL- I found that cliff scene nerve wracking- with their being so close to that edge and the island shaking all around. There was a great cheer when Jack lunged toward Flocke-then the commercial as he was in the air!

Amy Lynn said...

@JT, I thought the scene was pretty awesome until the flying leap, which looked awful, IMHO.

Amy Lynn said...

I think it's particularly interesting that the critical reaction has been so nasty to the finale in general, while the fan community mostly liked the finale, but mostly hated the last ten minutes. It's an interesting commentary on the state of the TV drama.

Zort70 said...

Good drama should provoke thought and discussion.

I can't imagine everyone seeing Romeo and Juliet for the first time was happy with the ending :-)

seaque said...

A final print of the characters following Christian towards the light. I would buy it. :)

Ray said...

Speaking of prints, have anyones orders changed from "Preorder" status yet? Not mine.

seaque said...

I've only rec'd the two orders that were placed on 5/14. Everything else still reads preorder.

Davide said...

17-22 Maggio, still preorder.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

well, I don't care what all these news papers say about it. And if you say most are critical than it's nice to be in the small group that love it like I do. I thought the only thing I didn't like was it was too short and it ended lol But... it had to end some time. I doubt this guy at the NY Times watched it every week and was as invested in it as I was so I'm sorry but I don't care what he thinks or why he hates it. My sister who has never watched Lost told me she watched the last half hour and loved it, cried and then called to ask me what was going on in Lost and maybe she should watch season one. lol To each there own I will plant my flag in the love it section any time.

Amy Lynn said...

@Lisa, um, good for you? Not sure what your point is. The bottom line is, if Darlton had said what the finale was going to be in advance, LOST would have lost 50% of it's viewer population.

Lisa-Maladylis said...

I guess I'm tired of Ummmm being pointed to all the posts where everyone tells me how much they hate it. If it's that hated, well, it's over so move on. Let us that loved it, enjoy it.

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